Parent Opinions on Eliminating National Youth Tournaments
Parents have expressed strong opinions. The issue is complex. There are very good points all around.
Here are some of their opinions:
“Fencing is a very expensive sport, it costs upwards of $30,000 a year to support a fencer in the Y14, Cadet and Junior years of fencing. Our family spent between $40,000 and $50,000 a year, the NAC locations made a big difference to the expense. Fencing is out of reach for most families because of the cost. I don’t think that reducing stress at the youth level by getting rid of youth NACs will solve the problem of young fencers leaving the sport. The real issue is not stress, the real issue is cost.”
“My opinion is the kids in Y10 and Y12 should not be driven to compete nationally---literature says they should not be specializing in a sport at this age but trying everything (including the arts and culture activities). As a club owner I have seen too many pushy parents with kids who are definitely not ready for national events (or even a regional event!). Also, I see many injuries in this age group to backs and knees (even arm/hand tendonitis from tall the hand work involved in over training and over competing) --it is a one sided sport and these kids are not old enough to be doing personal core fitness to keep their sides balanced. How many Y10 events have you observed and how many tears there are and "bad" parents who yell at their kids for their performance when the kid is already devastated about their result? This even happens at the regional level and then this kid quits---as a club owner retention is always a challenge as the kids grow up and then start to find their niche sport so we compete with many other activities so I don't think making fencing more demanding and more expensive than say their soccer team or their violin lessons and orchestra performances helps at the club level to retain fencers. Those who are talented and gifted in the sport will find ways to be challenged and yes, those kids will thrive to fence up in age groups if their event is eliminated. The other big thing is expenses to send these youngsters to not only a plethora of Regional events but then national ones as well. Even for the older cadet- juniors they could basically have a competition every weekend (between a club event, a regional, a Super, a national, and an international for some--it is just way toooo many competitions and many parents and coaches push the kids to do them all---this is unhealthy and all about the selfish coach who wants his talent to get results and be seen every where).
In my opinion a better developed regional and then adding more SYCs that are spread out across the US so the travel and expense burden isn't so impactful and I agree if these are smaller they are less stressful to this little 8 year trying to figure it out. I am not looking to regress but when my kids were young there was no way I could afford to send them everywhere like many parents can afford and do now--
I am not sure where the balance is but I think clubs can adjust to no national youth events or at least paring it back to only 1 youth event a year.”
“What I would suggest is that USFA look at how other sports handle youth development. I can't help wondering if Y10s with less than a year of fencing experience should uproot their families to go a national competition. IMO it seems excessive unless they are exceptionally skilled. But most are average by definition and are often can find proximal challenge at RYCs and SYCs.”
“…if a Y10 fencer is consistently placing in the top half or top third of local events and are comfortable and say, middle-ish fencing up, then national events make more sense. I actually do think SYCs provide good training, and they give families more flexibility for travel and scheduling. Maybe Y12 would be a good national starting point, and perhaps even make Y10 a smaller event for advanced younger kids who are already able to earn Y12 qualification.
Anecdotally, there was a Y10 who medaled at a championship after having tried the weapon for fun just a few times (did not actually practice it or have a coach). There are certainly some Y10s with better developed skills, but they are often also competitive in Y12.
Another reason for increasing local competitions is the opportunity for greater inclusion and growing the participation of the sport overall.”
“My kid is a saber fencer in division 3. Many of the kids she fenced at regional tournaments are often the kids that are medalling at national level tournaments. I've seen many of the kids chasing points by traveling across the country to get national points at an "easier" SYC. This is her last year as a youth fencer and she is missing most of it because we wouldn't let her go to tournaments. I am watching many of her friends trying to qualify for JOs. Some kids are able to qualify without fencing because not enough people show up and in other locations really good fencers can't finish in the top 25% because it's a really hard competition. I have no idea what the solution is, but it seems like there should be some way to create a more fair approach to qualification paths.”
“What the heck? Eliminate youth fencing events? That is crazy. This is how the young fencers gain experience and work their way up.
It is up to parents to manage, by balancing local, regional, and national tournaments. I remember when June (name changed to protect fencer’s identity) first started fencing in cadet, we discussed how her “win” would be making the cut. So when she won three pool bouts and her first DE, she didn’t look at it as she lost in the table of 128, but rather that she exceeded her goal. And when she wasn’t able to win at NACs, she had smaller goals, like trying to win a regional patch and earn her E or her D rating.
But for fencers who are trying to get better, they have to compete against the best fencers. One of the great things about the sport is that you not only can compete at national tournaments even if you are not yet that good, but you also can compete up. When June was in Y-14, she competed in her first Division I event, and got an Olympian in her pool. She didn’t look at it as stressful, she was happy that she lost 5-1, because she could tell her friends that she got a point off of an Olympian.
A final point is that fencers need to get used to losing………………Having a bunch of youth fencers do well in local tournaments, and then find out when they hit Cadet that they are not as hot as they think they are when they first hit Cadet NACS, would be very problematic.
Also, look at the regional disparities. Fencers in NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, and other places with strong clubs get to fence top people. For them, going to their first national tournament in Cadet would not be so much of a shock, because fencers at places like Manhattan Fencing or Premier are used to strong competition. But for fencers in smaller cities? They would get killed. Adopting this would basically lock in a permanent advantage for NYC/NJ and similarly placed fencers………”
“If there is a problem, it is more at the SYC level. Fencers with parents willing to fly around the country have a huge advantage in accumulating points, especially at Y-10 and Y-12. (It is somewhat of a problem at Y-14, but not as much given the weightings.) So there is huge pressure to fly to tournaments to accumulate points. If kids get burned out, it is more from the SYC treadmill than the NACs.
Parents need to learn that the fencers who do well long-term are the ones who push themselves and really want to do well, rather than the ones who are pushed by their parents. But that is another topic.”
“Both my kids started fencing at age 9, and we went to our first Summer Nationals in 2015 when my younger one was just 10 years old. My kids had a blast even though they managed to fence just one or 2 DEs per event. We thought the trip to be a huge success. Starting at age 5, my kids tried out most youth sports available to them, soccer, basketball, lacrosse, tennis, swimming, kid MMA and even golf. They also attended music, art and Mandarin classes and visited lots of museums and castles on our travels. But by age 12, only fencing stuck. Except for fencing, their experiences with the other sports were very local, run mostly by parent volunteers and controlled for stress (ie. the organizers always made sure every kid felt good after the game). But fencing was different, Summer Nationals, March and November NACs were so much fun. Although my older son eventually quit fencing in his 2nd year of Y14 because he did not like the competition stress, I don't think he would have continued even if it had been less stressful. There were just other things that interested him more. It's not clear to me that reducing stress would make kids stick with a sport that doesn't interest them.”
“One huge area of stress comes from the “need” to fence up. I wish youth events only got you points in that specific age category. But if you are y10, then y12 points are added to y10 and so on. So you feel obligated to fence up and then up some more. Let’s keep the points only for the age group they are earned in. Y10 points for Y10. Y12 for Y12. Etc.”
Fencing Parents’ Observations and Suggestions
We agree that kids under the age of 12 should not be “shoehorned” into fencing as their lifelong choice of sport. However, we don’t think kids will choose fencing because it is less stressful. They will choose fencing because they love it and their parents can afford it. Turnover in sports among young kids is inevitable, and stress is only one factor in the mix.
Cost is a very big consideration in whether a child pursues fencing as a sport. Parents of competitive fencers chasing national points are on the hook for substantial expenses well in excess of $30,000 a year. Recreational fencers spend less, but when the cost of uniforms, shoes, equipment, club fees and local tournament fees are added up, parents are still looking at expenses that exceed $3,000 a year, especially when a child is growing fast and needs new uniforms and shoes 3 times a year.
Certainly pushy parents make the fencing experience unnecessarily stressful. If pushy parents are the real source of stress, not national competition, then the solution is not about canceling national youth tournaments that penalize the majority of youth fencers with more reasonable parents.
Parent education on how to bring up a successful fencer is much more critical in that case - this will help all parents in the long term, both the pushy ones and the reasonable ones. Eliminating national youth events is too drastic given that misguided parents form the minority of parents.
In fact, a very wise coach uses the philosophy that fencers improve by fencing their own age level and one level up. This is the advice he gives parents at his club, and his track record has been one of national and international success. Perhaps, US Fencing can engage his help in creating a curriculum for parents.
While every effort should be made to protect young fencers who are not ready for the “big leagues”, eliminating national youth tournaments is like taking a hammer to a problem that requires a scalpel. Educating parents and re-educating coaches would be a much more constructive path to take, and have much longer term benefits for both parents and fencers.
Rather than eliminate national youth events, US Fencing should consider introducing Qualifying Paths for March NAC at the Y10 and Y12 level for fencers without national points.
It is an excellent idea to increase the number of SYCs and RYCs around the country widening the opportunity for fencers of all levels and diverse financial means to participate. But we must not forget that the clubs who host these regional events do so because the proceeds help to finance their club’s operations. Over the years, we have observed that events in April and May tend to be poorly attended since most people already have the requisite points to qualify for Summer Nationals. This is a challenge that US Fencing will need to help the clubs overcome before expanding the number of RYCs and SYCs around the country.
Increasingly at the youth level, venue shopping for SYCs to maximize tournament experience and the chances of earning national points gets both stressful for the fencer and expensive for the parents with the cross-country travel required of venue shopping. There are more SYCs to hop around to than there are youth NACS. Eliminating national youth tournaments is unlikely to stop the SYC venue shopping. Not all parents can afford to shop for venues, so how can US Fencing level that playing field?
US Fencing can consider introducing Regional Championships that facilitate a higher level of competition than RYCs and SYCs. Regional championships would provide an intermediate level of competition for youth fencers, without the attendant stress and cost of travel. It may take the edge off SYC venue shopping since there is an alternative method for fencers to gain quality tournament experience. Perhaps, the top 16 in a Regional Championship automatically qualify for Summer Nationals, and points earned by the rest go into their regional points bucket towards qualification.
Since any fencer with Y14 national points can fence up into Cadet events regardless of age, Cadet NACs are, therefore, open to fencers including those in the Y10 age group. There are 10 year old fencers with Y14 points, especially when their parents have been willing to shop hard enough for the right SYC venue. These very young fencers and their Y12 brethren with Y14 points are all eligible for Cadet NACs, and more of them may try to compete at a Cadet NAC if youth NACs are taken away from them. The stress for these youth fencers would be even greater than if they simply competed at youth NACs.
The Youth Development Resource Team points out that “ADM does have a pathway for exceptional athletes as well as fencing up if you are on the next younger National Points list.” With SYC venue shopping, many fencers are able to earn these national points. The Resource Team may want to re-consider what “exceptional” means.
Y10s may be young for national tournaments, and parents need to be guided on how to make a decision whether to go national or not. Y12 is a reasonable age for fencers to compete at the national level and Y14s absolutely should be fencing at the national level.
Note from Editor
The tabled item to discuss the possibility of eliminating national youth events was removed from the Board’s May 26, 2021 final meeting agenda. This item was not discussed at the May 26 Board meeting. You can read FP’s article framing the issue HERE.
